Islam is Compatible With Democracy

Tim Dunlop states that Islam is incompatible with democracy . He is wrong, Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia have all voted in secular political parties, rather than religious ones. The muslims in these nations have chosen good government first. Iraq's problem is that their equivalent of the "Bearded Men" is deciding what the country will look like for the next century.

It took sixty-eight years for Australians to get the racism out of their constitution. It is one of the few referendums that has passed. The people are wise, the politicians - not so much. Once a political meme is established in constitutional or statutory law, it is exceptionally difficult to eradicate in a representative democracy. No matter how damaging those laws are. It took Australia seventy years to remove the White Australia Policy. It took eighty to remove the protectionist policies. We still have not made it with a Bill of Rights or Republican Constitution, both of which were innovations well before the Australian Constitution was written.

Iraq has their version of Deakin, Barton and Griffiths deciding they know what is best for the people. I expect in 2080 a young Iraqi will be writing to the terran nets about how they have finally managed to eradicate sharia law from their constitution with a referendum vote.

When small groups of specialists come together to decide the future of a people, they invariably get it wrong. The Iraqis writing the present constitution are no different. The people are wise, and if this constitution was put to the people, line by line, then they would get back just what a superior constitution should be.

When the people decide, wisdom comes to the fore, when small groups of specialists decide, inferior outcomes inevitably result.

cam
Permalink, Islam is Compatible With Democracy, Aug 2005, cam
avocadia: Not Islam:

He didn\'t say Islam was incompatible with democracy, he said people\'s religious beliefs were incompatible with democracy; and the point he was trying to get across was that constitutions are incompatible with religion. That you can\'t have (liberal) democracy when someone else\'s morality is imposed upon you from above.

Which just quietly is absolutely right. What I want to hear from Tim Dunlop is how he proposes the US/UK/au/non-Iraqis remove the reference to Islamic law being the souce of Iraqi law. I mean, once bashing the pro-war people for everytime they shrug at the disgracfulness of the constitution, once that gets boring - what then?

btw, I think I got lumped in with "those on the right" because I was skeptical of the idea of imposing a constitution. It is to laugh :- )
Scrymarch: Secularitay: ((Young and woman wild and free.  Oh wait this isn\'t a Billy Bragg song.))

I know this is a pretty atheistic crowd, but it\'s a bit much to claim constitutions are incompatible with religion.  To my mind, a good constitution leaves a broad space of individual freedom for people to follow their own beliefs.  Citizens have to accept the state will follow a few core liberal principles such as equality before the law and \"your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins\".

Jesus understood this when he took a $10 note out of his pocket and said: \"Um, render unto Banjo Patterson that which is Banjo Patterson\'s\".
avocadia: Shall I restate?: Constitutions are incompatible with a religion.
Scrymarch: I\'m still not convinced: I think Turkey, Malaysia etc put the lie to that, but we can agree to differ.
avocadia: Not sure what you mean.: Turkey doesn\'t involve religion in its constitution. It declares flat out that it is a secular state. That\'s what I mean by religion not having a place in a constitution. No constitution can claim to be the founding document of a liberal democracy while also spruiking a particular religion.
Scrymarch: Ah: (Only just saw this reply)

I\'m relieved to find a much weaker condition than I first thought.  

I still think you\'re wrong.  

Check out the constitution of Malaysia :


3.

(1) Islam is the religion of the Federation; but other religions may be practised in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation.

(2) In every State other than States not having a Ruler the position of the Ruler as the Head of the religion of Islam in his State in the manner and to the extent acknowledged and declared by the Constitution, all rights, privileges, prerogatives and powers enjoyed by him as Head of that religion, are unaffected and unimpaired; but in any acts, observance or ceremonies with respect to which the Conference of Rulers has agreed that they should extend to the Federation as a whole each of the other Rulers shall in his capacity of Head of the religion of Islam authorize the Yang di-pertuan Agong to represent him.

(3). The Constitution of the States of Malacca, Penang, Sabah and Sarawak shall each make provision for conferring on the Yang di-Pertuan Agong shall be Head of the religion of Islam in that State.

(4) Nothing in this Article derogates from any other provision of this Constitution.

(5) Notwithstanding anything in this Constitution the Yang di-Pertuan Agong shall be the Head of the religion of Islam in the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Labuan; and for this purpose Parliament may by law make provisions for regulating Islamic religious affairs and for constituting a Council to advise the Yang di-Pertuan Agong in matters relating to the religion of Islam.

Now Malaysia is not always a paradigm of liberalism, but for reasons of overabundant government than religion.

Even in Turkish history there were a number of constitutional settlements which included Islam.  The National Pact agreed near the start of the War of Independence even claimed sharia as a source of law.  Post-war settlements provided for a caliph, as a religious leader of Muslims, appointed by the assembly, in a roughly similar fashion to the way the Archbishop of Cantebury is appointed today.  Later settlements were secular to a fault.  The current AKP government under Erdogan is essentially a \"Muslim Democrat\" party, analogous to the Christian democrat parties in Europe.  It was harassed in opposition on trumped up grounds of being too religious.

I think Islam is as or more compatible with Democracy as Christianity is with Capitalism.  There are contradictions to be managed, but a productive accomodation can definitely be reached.

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